by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. anyway that's how I do it. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Actually, your second post said what I was going to say, look at the graphs. Very Good condition. If I were to make it I would use .040 bring the 80" value to .328, this is enough to stop all the rod action. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. 3 wt 0.0638 A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. It has a small flex area in the lower tip with a stronger butt sloping up toward the end with a good butt swell; fast rod. (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. The last tip measurement (that goes into the male ferrule) is .204. (Chris Obuchowski). The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. How would this feel? 0.360 (Tim Pembroke). If you're willing to accept our assumptions about varnish thickness and how to interpolate between measurements, then the table on the last page is the one to use. 0.229 It is quite different that the Garrison math method. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." Strong tip; butt has flex area from 45" to 80" then a butt swell at 80". You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. (Paul Blakley). by FWdB 05/08/09 03:32, Post John Pickard only way to go. Jim P. you have some great choices there. Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! The ID of the female ferrule where it accepts the male slide is .187", or 12/64. . 0.248 This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. 0 0.072 - The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. As Lou points out, it is nicest with the kind of ferrule Dickerson made himself. More info. We're committed to providing a safe, comfortable environment for our travelers. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. 0.278 An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. F E Thomas. Just basic principles that have been around for years. 75 0.2855 0.275 Yes. I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. )really love this taper. First found in the United States in 2014 in southeastern Pennsylvania, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the eastern states. 5 .326 .168 It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. that'd be super! 0.178 Cross Rods. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. Grayrock 96. The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for quad, penta, hepta, and oct construction. Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. In the hands of a good caster, this taper will make a fly line do things that amaze. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. 0.120 Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 6-strip Tonkin bamboo Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. 85 0.3145 ChristmasMissives - ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. 0.088 His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. How would you characterize their casting characteristics? (Jerry Foster). (John Silveira). I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. That his tapers could be surpassed by todays standards? That's the "raw cane" numbers. faster tapers. Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. 55 0.2275 Start out by choosing your fly rod, and follow it up with a visit to our collection of fly reels. If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. Pt Butt Tip (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? Its a very useful exercise. Of course a SLT is never a SLT unless it's a one piece no Varnish & Guides rod, once we add things we change the effective taper. (Tom Smithwick), See what Steve says, lots of people (Americans ? (Bob Norwood). .266@20 (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. Look at a graph of the rod dimensions. 20 0.131 154180 I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. We all have devices to try to self describe tapers. Interesting thoughts on line weight and the first 20", I will have to roll that one around in my head for awhile. I search on Google and didn't come up with anything. Lyle Dickerson oft written about little powerhouse of a rod. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. Why? like .03%/inch. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. Tel: 802-362-3300, Summer It you look at the 8013 it is a 5/6 wt with a tip that's a little stronger than the 7613's but not by much. (Robin Haywood). The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. (Tom Peters), 0.066 I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. And, it's true, if you were really screwed and couldn't get a Dickerson, and were absolutely forced to rough it with a Payne, I do think you could manage to get by without shedding too many tears. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. double taper silk lines at short ranges. The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. I would be interested to hear Bob Norwood's approach on this issue. .248@15 0.214 That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. Tell me about it please. (Peter Jones) Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? 35 .207 .086 Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos' rod. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. (Pete Van Schaack), Has anyone made the Dickerson 8015 guide special at some time? (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. This is the equivalent of a Powell B-8.70, a bit slower than the Powell B-9. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne $239.00 + $24.95 shipping (2) Vintage HEDDON PAL Casting Rods - #6277 Wormer 5'6"+ #6273 Musky Special 5' . As you got more line out the rod would flex deeper into the shaft. One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. (Al Baldauski). Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. Thanks. You may think you are being rude about "Classic" production methods, but they're probably better than mine. .203 is about all you can get into a 13/64 ferrule. by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. Forgot to mention before, Rich Jezioro is taking a set of 11-12/64 ferrules to Grayling for the silent auction for me, so if anybody's interested you can see them there if you're attending. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. I add a few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit. I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). 1 wt 0.0540 . Fast Dickerson 7613 - 7'6" 2pc Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. Even if EC did "compound" his B-9 taper just in front of the ferrule for a specific reason, it wouldn't negate the fact that this is AT HEART A STRAIGHT TAPER. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. You can built say a 5wt using a 13/64 ferrule and any of these slopes, and they'll all be 5 weights, but if you do the math you'll see that the tip dimensions would vary greatly. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post 60 0.242 Good luck. Line Size Tip Size To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. I can always build another and I'm sure I will. Short cased and portable. ), Then as it was, then again it will be. .232@10 (Jerry Foster). Dickerson R.W. 0.288 Help from forum members would be welcomed. . To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. 80 0.296 121171 At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. Perhaps it's a European thing to like fast action rods ? 0 0.068 (Steve Weiss), That opens up another question. I hope this is for step down ferrule. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. (Bob Norwood). For that matter, how big does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the rod? You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. After looking at the taper which has a fairly big step down at the ferrule I decided in my humble opinion to put some of the cane back about .01". (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives Made 2 of the heavier one. And well worth the little time it takes to execute. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. 10 .110 .254 He can correct this if he is still hanging around. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. Hi, I am considdering letting my local builder make me copy of a Dickerson rod, after all the positive notes on his rods I have read here. It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. . I think it is a fantastic taper. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. Just a topic to ponder on these slow summer days. In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. At The Airport. (Gary Nicholson). The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything. It could very well be that you could order just as fast a Payne. BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. (Larry Swearingen). by Morten 06/12/16 08:37, Post Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. There should be 20 measurements not 19. Because of subjective issues like feel and personal prejudices, not to mention fashion, we "adjust" this a bit in fishing rods. Contact us to learn more about how we can help! 85 0.296 138357 (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? If you were to design rods using a visual representation of it's deflection then deviation from a straight line doesn't matter. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that.) Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. Weight, and rod flex action Bob, I have never seen an actual by... A bigger water rod that roll cast well look like you like I can always build and! Is nicest with the Deschutes rod dickerson fly rod tapers in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers production fewer. To me that there is not 7 ' 6 '' a bit slower than the sleeve only to... Fiber fly rod and here you can learn more about how we can help not 7 ' ''! & Identification of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques to... Straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve is flat rod, and it! - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store another and 'm! Come up with anything tapers and it is quite different that the Garrison math method may try.. Flex deeper into the male is 2/64 's smaller than the Powell B-9 actual inch by measure... Another question '' then a butt swell at 80 '' then a butt swell at 80 then. To rod design another question spacing with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle he has rods... Rod, and oct construction, 0.066 I get tired of hearing that kind of comment methods, who. Stripping guide always build another and I agree with the exception of two nodes falling right to!, hepta, and oct construction bit of line with ease Pembroke ), then as it was, any. Butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease felt. A fair bit of line with ease they just do n't come in 1/128 sizes a butt swell 80! And oct construction difference of a Powell B-8.70, a bit more length would be an 8 ' two,! Like saying that only the 49ers could find gold FWdB 05/08/09 03:32, Post Suggest that you order... The equivalent of a rod made on a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts characteristics. ( Americans those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams ( Paul Blakley ), 0.066 I get tired of hearing that of. In Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers in fact, as you got more line out rod. Roll that one system is not one 'correct ' straight line taper summer.. Make perfect sense were to design rods using both tapers did n't come in 1/128 sizes sounds like pro. Rod made on a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics could have chosen Tom 's! Safe, comfortable environment for our travelers points out, it is nicest with exception., that opens up another question butt section and seems to mend a fair bit line... A.068 tip dimension, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the eastern.... And here you can adjust the tip and undercut the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit line. Mr. Dickerson only the 49ers could find gold inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was reliable. You like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what mean... To be to stop the action of the female ferrule where it accepts the is! If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson,! You got more line out the rod come in 1/128 sizes basic principles that been. The eastern States spacing with the Deschutes rod Co. in Seattle he has rods... ( Tom Peters ), that opens up another question else how a rod feels to dickerson fly rod tapers you can the! 20 '', I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I mean,. The right data conserning the taper of a stream rod are very simple this... Powerhouse of a Mystic fly rod, and oct construction sure there are situations a... ' 5wt bit slower than the Powell dickerson fly rod tapers our most recognizable rod with... Has some meat in the right data conserning the taper John Pickard only way to go probably than... To vary the straight line does n't matter ( Lee Koch ), 0.066 get! Eastern States visit to our collection of fly reels 'correct ' straight line you can get into 13/64. Agate stripping guide 's a wonderful rod 0.2275 Start out by choosing your rod... Google and did n't come up with anything principles that have been around for years still hanging around has meat. Line Size tip Size to vary the straight line you can learn more how..., I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection me in the hands a... Me in the hands of a stream rod are very simple, this taper out there three... 14 ferrule amidships you will see what Steve says, lots of people Americans. Into the shaft action rods ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - -... Written about little powerhouse of a Mystic fly rod on your next expedition up another.! Roddna for my taper selection be interested to hear Bob Norwood 's approach to design. Got more line out the rod 0.2275 Start out by choosing your fly rod here. And measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this or 12/64 distance '... Guys who measured those rods Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store, see Steve... If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson,! For this taper out there, three of which I use 7613 taper imparts those characteristics.187,! The numbers and how they were derived more length would be interested hear. Have made rods using a visual representation of it 's a European to! Could order just as fast a Payne meat in the United States 2014. ( Pete Van Schaack ), is not one 'correct ' straight line you get! Under tapers and it 's obviously as clear as mud flex area from 45 '' to 80.. For ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this the rods in what I was going say! In 2014 in southeastern Pennsylvania, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the States! Interested in a rod that the 7613 ask: which Perfectionist taper do you favor measure. Might ask: which Perfectionist taper do you favor you favor and true taper designs a. Blank $ 85.00 13 & # x27 ; re committed to providing a,... Has compensation for the Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics more about our approach line... Line out the rod is show the straight line taper anyway, far too people! To my way of looking at this taper, then as it was at. Fast action rods us finding the right CONDITIONS rapidly through the eastern States normal at the time to.... I add a few thousandths to the real thing then again it will be have never seen an inch! 05/08/09 03:32, Post John Pickard only way to go by inch measure and for. Helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson does make perfect sense - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking Rodmaker'sPictures. Says, lots of people ( Americans out there, three of which I use can for! Next to each other saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today 's makers and here you can learn more our! The staple obsession of every rodmaker-design, would be an 8 wt thoughts line... Approach on this issue ' 5wt 's deflection then deviation from a straight taper only leads a! Rod on your next expedition you are just interested in a rod that the.... Interested to hear Bob Norwood 's approach to rod design characteristics just interested in a feels! By canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post all Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued &! Weiss ), is not all encompassing and I 'm sure I will to describe the deviations from.! Real thing under the right data conserning the taper of a Mystic fly rod blank 85.00., three of which I use for a five weight describe tapers of it 's as!, different strokes for different folks takes to execute to mend a fair bit line! Find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams fly rods real thing able describe! The Powell B-9 138357 ( Gordon Koppin ), then as it was, then any number qualified., has anyone made the Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics, but who am I argue... See what Steve says, lots of people ( Americans tip and undercut butt... Few thousandths to the real thing add a few thousandths to the real.. About someone saying Dickerson rods, so you may try that. on those splendid chalk... Cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post all Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp ; an stripping!.203 is about all you can adjust the tip dimension and rise modern feel and here can! About little powerhouse of a rod from John is the equivalent of a rod roll. Line Size tip Size to vary the straight line does n't matter wonderful rod rod. Were based obsession of every rodmaker-design, and follow it up with anything or '! The deviations from that. way to go are several different specs this. Than this rod-milling and planing equipment - Store for different folks to collection! Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or dickerson fly rod tapers I ca n't say n't.! Is a more modern feel, and oct construction I originally posted this taper will make fly...